We’ve interviewed Sallie and Haj, the facilitators of our Freedom Programme for survivors of domestic abuse. In the interview, they discuss what the programme is about and how its delivered. Check it out below!
Sallie and Haj, thank you so much for joining me today to speak about Home-Start Lambeth’s Freedom Programme. I’m going to kick start this interview by asking you to explain what the Freedom programme is and whether anyone can join it.
Sallie: The Freedom Programme is a programme that helps attendees understand what domestic abuse is. A lot of people think that domestic abuse is purely physical, but I’d say 90% of it is mental. The programme runs once a week across 7 weeks and each session lasts 2 hours. And yes, anyone can join the programme as long as they identify as female or non-binary and are no longer in a relationship or living with their perpetrator. We run the programme both virtually (over Zoom) and F2F.
And could you let me know what people get from the programme?
Sallie: Reading back on the notes from the last Freedom Programme, it seems like people enjoy the interaction with other females that have been through similar situations. They enjoy being able to frankly speak about issues that they have been involved in or are dealing with, like the effects on their children, how it makes them feel, aftereffects, new relationships, etc.
What are both of your backgrounds and how did you become Freedom Programme facilitators?
Sallie: I fell into the Freedom Programme when I joined Home-Start Lambeth. I was asked if I wanted to participate, and I thought it would be a great challenge. Before taking on my current role, I’d never been professional involved in the field of domestic abuse, but I had personally experienced domestic abuse and my daughter is also a survivor of domestic abuse.
Haj: I also became a Freedom Programme trainer through my current role at Home-Start Lambeth. I’ve been doing domestic abuse professionally in a different capacity for the past 10 years and like Sallie I am a survivor of domestic abuse from my ex-partner and his family members. A long time ago I didn’t know what domestic abuse was until I started a job which I accidentally fell into. I knew about the Freedom Programme before joining Home-Start Lambeth because I used to just sit in in a few sessions and watch when I could. But I didn’t know much about the content of the programme itself until I started delivering it through Home-Start.
So, Haj, what do you like about delivering Freedom/what do you like about the programme?
Haj: I like the fact that it’s run by survivors for survivors. I love the fact that Sallie and I have a personal experience in it, so we understand the emotions and types of abuse, whether it’s physical, financial, emotional, etc, we relate to their pain because we’ve experienced it.
I also love the fact that the programme is a safe space for people to share their experiences and finally realise that they’re not the only ones who have been through an abusive relationship. During the first sessions everyone is quite quiet, and it’s fun to see how they gradually open up from session to session. And some people end up befriending others because of their shared experiences.
Overall, I think the programme empowers attendees and gives them the confidence to speak out. Some even end up becoming advocates of the programme and share their experiences of attending Freedom. My hope is that we’re empowering our generation and the next to try and move on with their lives and live a better, safer life, because people have the right to live free of abuse.
Throughout the programme, you really get to see different cultures and understandings. And no session is the same. Some sessions are very funny, and others are filled with very serious conversations. But I think everyone is different and it’s a cool experience for us as well because we learn a lot of things that maybe we haven’t come across before.
Sallie: When I did a counselling course, we practised watching people’s behaviours and reading people’s body language. And I feel that comes in hand with the Freedom Programme. Even when the programme is delivered over Zoom, I’m still watching people over the screen. I gauge people’s responses and reactions to what we say, and this helps me understand whether they’re upset and would like to chat in private.
Haj: Exactly, we’re able to recognise the facial expressions & experiences and body language of attendees, be it online or in person. And we’re able to take someone who is upset to a different (either virtual or physical) room and have a conversation with them. If I’m the one talking, then Sallie would be the one to take them off and vice versa. Nobody is left alone. Their experiences and thoughts and emotions are validated, unlike in their past experiences of abuse.
It sounds like an amazing programme! So, what would you say are the challenges of delivering the Freedom Programme?
Haj: There are a lot of challenges. And I don’t want to put a negative spin on it. They are all good experiences for us. The Zoom one is obviously technical. You don’t know what’s going on in the people’s rooms. Sometimes you can’t see facial expressions because they turn their camera off. So, during that time we don’t know if they’re attending to a child or just having a break.
Another challenge is that we sometimes have attendees who might challenge what we say. For example, we recently had a woman ask us why we were male bashing. We explained that we are delivering a programme about gender-based abuse. It is mostly perpetrated by men against women. We highlighted that there are Freedom Programmes specifically for male victims too.
Moreover, there’s always the risk of someone getting upset with the subject being discussed and one of us having to take them out to a separate room or breakout area and have a conversation with them. We don’t know how long that conversation will last or what the subject will be. If there’s a safeguarding disclosure, we then need to report it. And because we split the content of each training between the two of us, if I’m presenting my part but Sallie needs to support someone in private, I need to carry on, but if it then becomes Sallie’s turn to present, I need to pick up her bit. But we work well together, we have a good flow.
I can imagine! But that’s a great sign of how comfortable attendees must feel talking to you both! Ok, so last question now: what would you say to someone who is thinking of attending the programme?
Haj: This is a programme that would benefit so many ladies because, like I said earlier, people think they are the only ones going through domestic abuse. Some of these victims have been gaslit, so they’ve lost all confidence in themselves, they don’t trust their own judgement. So, when we speak about the programme, we let them know that their lack of confidence is the linked to the tricks used by their perpetrators. They may have been gaslit, manipulated, or the victims of the so-called Jekyll & Hyde, where the perpetrator is exceptionally loving one minute and extremely cruel the next. This leaves the Survivor often confused and feeling at fault, which will lead them to forgive their abuser, allowing the cycle to repeat itself again. We explain to Survivors they were right in their feelings and that they are not to blame in any way and have done nothing to deserve the abuse. Nobody deserves to be abused. The programme is about empowering, educating, and giving survivors the autonomy to say “do you know what? I’m in charge of my own life now”. And giving them the confidence to move forward, so that they can hopefully recognise any red flags in a future relationship.
Sallie: Personally, I think Freedom is very important and should be taken to schools too, as teenagers would benefit from learning to distinguish abuse from appropriate behaviour in relationships with the other sex.
Haj: I second that. This is a future ambition for Sallie and I. A future project perhaps! 😁
Amazing. Thank you so much for making the time to speak to me today! It was very interesting to hear about the Freedom Programme! This interview will hopefully help anyone considering whether to take part in the programme to go for it.
Sophie Bannister – Volunteering & Communications Officer
Here’s an interview with Sallie and Haj, the facilitators of our Freedom Programme for survivors of domestic abuse. In the interview, they speak about what the programme is about & how they feel about delivering it. Check it out below!
Sallie and Haj, thank you so much for joining me today to speak about Home-Start Lambeth’s Freedom Programme. I’m going to kick start this interview by asking you to explain what the Freedom programme is and whether anyone can join it.
Sallie: The Freedom Programme is a programme that helps attendees understand what domestic abuse is. A lot of people think that domestic abuse is purely physical, but I’d say 90% of it is mental. The programme runs once a week across 7 weeks and each session lasts 2 hours. And yes, anyone can join the programme as long as they identify as female or non-binary and are no longer in a relationship or living with their perpetrator. We run the programme both virtually (over Zoom) and F2F.
And could you let me know what people get from the programme?
Sallie: Reading back on the notes from the last Freedom Programme, it seems like people enjoy the interaction with other females that have been through similar situations. They enjoy being able to frankly speak about issues that they have been involved in or are dealing with, like the effects on their children, how it makes them feel, aftereffects, new relationships, etc.
What are both of your backgrounds and how did you become Freedom Programme facilitators?
Sallie: I fell into the Freedom Programme when I joined Home-Start Lambeth. I was asked if I wanted to participate, and I thought it would be a great challenge. Before taking on my current role, I’d never been professional involved in the field of domestic abuse, but I had personally experienced domestic abuse and my daughter is also a survivor of domestic abuse.
Haj: I also became a Freedom Programme trainer through my current role at Home-Start Lambeth. I’ve been doing domestic abuse professionally in a different capacity for the past 10 years and like Sallie I am a survivor of domestic abuse from my ex-partner and his family members. A long time ago I didn’t know what domestic abuse was until I started a job which I accidentally fell into. I knew about the Freedom Programme before joining Home-Start Lambeth because I used to just sit in in a few sessions and watch when I could. But I didn’t know much about the content of the programme itself until I started delivering it through Home-Start.
So, Haj, what do you like about delivering Freedom/what do you like about the programme?
Haj: I like the fact that it’s run by survivors for survivors. I love the fact that Sallie and I have a personal experience in it, so we understand the emotions and types of abuse, whether it’s physical, financial, emotional, etc, we relate to their pain because we’ve experienced it.
I also love the fact that the programme is a safe space for people to share their experiences and finally realise that they’re not the only ones who have been through an abusive relationship. During the first sessions everyone is quite quiet, and it’s fun to see how they gradually open up from session to session. And some people end up befriending others because of their shared experiences.
Overall, I think the programme empowers attendees and gives them the confidence to speak out. Some even end up becoming advocates of the programme and share their experiences of attending Freedom. My hope is that we’re empowering our generation and the next to try and move on with their lives and live a better, safer life, because people have the right to live free of abuse.
Throughout the programme, you really get to see different cultures and understandings. And no session is the same. Some sessions are very funny, and others are filled with very serious conversations. But I think everyone is different and it’s a cool experience for us as well because we learn a lot of things that maybe we haven’t come across before.
Sallie: When I did a counselling course, we practised watching people’s behaviours and reading people’s body language. And I feel that comes in hand with the Freedom Programme. Even when the programme is delivered over Zoom, I’m still watching people over the screen. I gauge people’s responses and reactions to what we say, and this helps me understand whether they’re upset and would like to chat in private.
Haj: Exactly, we’re able to recognise the facial expressions & experiences and body language of attendees, be it online or in person. And we’re able to take someone who is upset to a different (either virtual or physical) room and have a conversation with them. If I’m the one talking, then Sallie would be the one to take them off and vice versa. Nobody is left alone. Their experiences and thoughts and emotions are validated, unlike in their past experiences of abuse.
It sounds like an amazing programme! So, what would you say are the challenges of delivering the Freedom Programme?
Haj: There are a lot of challenges. And I don’t want to put a negative spin on it. They are all good experiences for us. The Zoom one is obviously technical. You don’t know what’s going on in the people’s rooms. Sometimes you can’t see facial expressions because they turn their camera off. So, during that time we don’t know if they’re attending to a child or just having a break.
Another challenge is that we sometimes have attendees who might challenge what we say. For example, we recently had a woman ask us why we were male bashing. We explained that we are delivering a programme about gender-based abuse. It is mostly perpetrated by men against women. We highlighted that there are Freedom Programmes specifically for male victims too.
Moreover, there’s always the risk of someone getting upset with the subject being discussed and one of us having to take them out to a separate room or breakout area and have a conversation with them. We don’t know how long that conversation will last or what the subject will be. If there’s a safeguarding disclosure, we then need to report it. And because we split the content of each training between the two of us, if I’m presenting my part but Sallie needs to support someone in private, I need to carry on, but if it then becomes Sallie’s turn to present, I need to pick up her bit. But we work well together, we have a good flow.
I can imagine! But that’s a great sign of how comfortable attendees must feel talking to you both! Ok, so last question now: what would you say to someone who is thinking of attending the programme?
Haj: This is a programme that would benefit so many ladies because, like I said earlier, people think they are the only ones going through domestic abuse. Some of these victims have been gaslit, so they’ve lost all confidence in themselves, they don’t trust their own judgement. So, when we speak about the programme, we let them know that their lack of confidence is the linked to the tricks used by their perpetrators. They may have been gaslit, manipulated, or the victims of the so-called Jekyll & Hyde, where the perpetrator is exceptionally loving one minute and extremely cruel the next. This leaves the Survivor often confused and feeling at fault, which will lead them to forgive their abuser, allowing the cycle to repeat itself again. We explain to Survivors they were right in their feelings and that they are not to blame in any way and have done nothing to deserve the abuse. Nobody deserves to be abused. The programme is about empowering, educating, and giving survivors the autonomy to say “do you know what? I’m in charge of my own life now”. And giving them the confidence to move forward, so that they can hopefully recognise any red flags in a future relationship.
Sallie: Personally, I think Freedom is very important and should be taken to schools too, as teenagers would benefit from learning to distinguish abuse from appropriate behaviour in relationships with the other sex.
Haj: I second that. This is a future ambition for Sallie and I. A future project perhaps! 😁
Amazing. Thank you so much for making the time to speak to me today! It was very interesting to hear about the Freedom Programme! This interview will hopefully help anyone considering whether to take part in the programme to go for it.
Sophie Bannister – Volunteering & Communications Officer